Curse

Timoz · Aug 04, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaospryx

Are you really that dense? His post wanted to nerf and make Balthazar's Aura elite...because it owned him in pvp. He wanted to nerf all mesmers because they owned his monk. He stated that he didn't like backfire and empathy, because those in particular destroyed his monk. Yes, empathy. He also wanted to nerf warriors becuase they used balthazar's aura. Again, that in itself is stupid, because he lacks the common sense to figure out that the warrior themselves do not cast balth's on themself.

Then his great paragraph:

This would definetely explain why he is so adverse to any positive discussion and suggestions to the skill NR, because it is the only thing he is capable of doing.

Firstly,
Sorry i didn't realise you knew Como and how he plays, sorry i didn't know that you knew all of his builds, strats..

Oh, wait, you don't.

Secondly,
It's the SUGGESTION section on the forum. He was making a SUGGESTION.

*gasps for breath* maybe with a little sarcasm yes, but he wants to improve the forum and the game im sure. What about all the people making so many threads about nerfing NR? they don't get closed do they?! How is this fair?

As i said at the start of this thread, why start this thread? There are already about 10 of the same one..? umm do the moderators want a forum of nerfing natures renewal? fair enough if they do but pls tell us if thats the way its headed.

/whynotclosethemostpointlessthreadever

Zell Murasame · Aug 04, 2005, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Or how about this simple solution: when a spirit is summoned, it dispells all nearby spirits with the same effect. Problem solved.

3LvL20'sROast_Stealer · Aug 04, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

looks like no1 knows the answer to my question therefor spirit spammers is perfectly legit

Kakumei · Aug 04, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaospryx

Are you really that dense? His post wanted to nerf and make Balthazar's Aura elite...because it owned him in pvp. He wanted to nerf all mesmers because they owned his monk. He stated that he didn't like backfire and empathy, because those in particular destroyed his monk. Yes, empathy. He also wanted to nerf warriors becuase they used balthazar's aura. Again, that in itself is stupid, because he lacks the common sense to figure out that the warrior themselves do not cast balth's on themself.

Then his great paragraph:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Como Fort
Lastly I would like to nerf anything that gives me trouble in PvP because I'm such a n00b I can't be bothered to find a strategy. I just want everything nerfed to suit me so that only my kind of strategy works. This would make things so much easier for me. Thankyou so much for wasting 1 minute of your life reading this. kthxbyeculater

This would definetely explain why he is so adverse to any positive discussion and suggestions to the skill NR, because it is the only thing he is capable of doing.

I dunno, that paragraph looks a hell of a lot like sarcasm to me. Maybe you're just retarded.

Desecration Station · Aug 04, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Let me remind the people that refuse to read.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT NERFING NR OR REMOVING SPIRITS FROM THE GAME PERIOD. This is about the ability to spam sheer numbers of the SAME spirit. If you can't see what's wrong with that then I can't help you there.

Think of it like this. Every single spell in this game that you can cast is replaced by the same spell when cast anew, right? Why should this be any different? I need someone to answer that for me.

3LvL20'sROast_Stealer, you didn't even read the post, so you don't even deserve an answer. Not ONCE did I mention NR. These builds aren't limited to just one spammer. Everyone has a a spirit or two that they cast as soon as they can. (Mind you things recharge mighty quick with Quickening Zephyr and Serpents Quickness).

Remember that rangers have the second best armor (can't tank, HAH!) and probably the best armor against elemental dmg. Throw up a ward against elements with the said spirits up and no rain of meteor storms is gonna take them out. (That is if you can even get it off. Mind you Rangers are mighty good interruptors themselves.) You yourself said that you haven't fought against this type of group so you probably don't know that Fertile Season affects spirits taking their HP into unreal amounts for a 'spirit'

Zell Murasame has right on the dot. That's the only thing that needs to happen in order to make things ok. I'm not saying to remove spirits. I'm not saying to remove multiple spirits of different effect at the same time. I'm just saying that the idea of spamming a specific spirit 10 times on a map is a little absurd.

Hanok Odbrook · Aug 04, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisby Pwns

Sure there is. Other Spirit Spamers. Pfft loser, everyone knows that there is no way to beat a spirit spaming group that knows how to do it well.

Honestly Spirit Spamers are not LEGIT!! they are a really big problem that needs to be nerfed.

"Knows how to do it well" - so there IS some kind of strategy or skill involved? Is that what you are saying?

If we're going to nerf this, we might as well nerf the monks who spam healing spell upon healing spell - I hate having to take what seems like forever killing them or their teammates - it's just not fair!!

The way the pro-nerfers are talking on this board, one would think that the top guilds on the ladder are all made up of Spirit-Spamming Rangers. Since that is not the case, this particular group would seem to be very beatable to me - using the right grouping, skills, and strategy. Just like a group of healing and protection monks who can spam and spam the same spell again and again, keeping themselves alive indefinately - yet I don't see a bunch of guilds at the top with this kind of group either.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Del12 · Aug 04, 2005, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zell Murasame

Or how about this simple solution: when a spirit is summoned, it dispells all nearby spirits with the same effect. Problem solved.

I have to say that's a great idea. I haven't made up my mind whether I think spirits need to be 'nerfed' yet. But I am getting tired of trying to find a counter to them. And I think, if there is a working counter, it would take so much organization and skill, that it would be hard to pull off. Therefore, only one type of spirit at a time would be great. Just pick ones you need to kill, then kill the rangers. I think this would level the playing field a bit. And the rangers would just need to use more 'organization and skill' to ensure the spirits they need are always down.

Desecration Station · Aug 05, 2005, 01:13 AM // 01:13

ditto, he's got the right idea.

Como Fort · Aug 05, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Or how about this simple solution: when a spirit is summoned, it dispells all nearby spirits with the same effect. Problem solved.

What they're moaning about is not so much when its down, just the immediate effect of removing all the enchantments and hexes when it comes down.

Lingering Curse kinda has the same effect, except it gives half effectiveness on healing which IMO is worse than having double time to cast hexes and enchantments. However, Lingering Curse though can be countered by Renewal seems as though its a hex...

Zell Murasame · Aug 05, 2005, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Como, the "Problem Sovled" I was refering to was the issue about encaging yourself in spirits to make you unreachable. Perhaps I should take a look at Nature Renewal, but I don't think there'd be a problem with it (from what I understand about the skill setups) if the spirits couldn't be so numerous or they had no corpereal sustenence... meaning you can't walk through them.

Como Fort · Aug 05, 2005, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Well spirits do get in the way of both teams, so they have to be strategically placed in some cases.

When you think about it, they are strategically placed because the Rangers are shooting over them and say a Warrior has to run through like, a maze of spirits whilst getting nuked by 5 rangers on the way. When the Warrior gets past this, 'Spirit Maze', he has near enough every condition known to man i.e. he/she is bleeding, poisoned, crippled, on fire etc.

All spirits are strategically placed, you just to understand the placement of them and to do that, you have to work in one of these Ranger teams first.

Zell Murasame · Aug 05, 2005, 02:17 AM // 02:17

I guess it just comes down to it being a strategy. This isn't something anyone fresh out of the Academy could do, I imagine.

I guess I can't really make up my mind on pro or con for this, but it is a strategy, and there is a counter to every strategy. Let's do some quick brainstorming...

Weaknesses:
-They are trapped in the circle, try using ranged attacks and spells?
-Spirits take 5 seconds to cast, so if they start raising like 6 spirits, perhaps rush?
-Having all of these spirits must be taxing on both the Energy and the skill slots, so they no longer have as much room for other essentials.

So far, we can consider using... let's see... anything but a Warrior (not too hard), rushing or interupts (Ranger or Mesmer), and draining Energy (Mesmer). Seems to me that you need a little Elite called Power Block.

But then again, that's just my two cents.

2_fingers · Aug 05, 2005, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Ok here's my 2 c

I personally think that spirits seem to be overpowered. So overpowered that when ever a PUG encounters a spirit team, a defeat is more or less garanteed. Their radius is simply too large. Using Nr as an example, we actually see a spell that disables some classes for over a minute. Backfire, empathy etc disable them for seconds. Most people in PvP when hit by either, either get someone to remove it or simply wait it out. U cant exactly wait out spirits if they are on for above a minute. Alot of things happen in 10 seconds - let alone 60 (or 112).

What I believe would be the solution to the problem from the player side (i.e. us)

1. Someone figure out a counter to it that is resonably easy to implement (not something that involes taking more than 3 slots from the skill bar)
2. Stop playing PvP

I am sure if the players playing HoH and PvP was reduced drastically, the GM would have to do something about the situation. Or even if the configuration of teams in a large proportion of the teams in the HoH was 90% rangers and 10% monks, the gms have to do something because there is an imbalance.

If u do say that the spirit spammers is a valid strat, and is NOT overpowered, then do tell us how u have been countered before while spamming it.

anyway, that's my 2 c worth

Thomasuwoo · Aug 05, 2005, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desecration Station

I'm tired of everyone saying to work around it and find a way to counter it. It finally happened and someone has finally taken it too far.

Those of you that haven't encountered the infamous 'heal ball' then you have no idea what I'm talking about. Those of you that have, were probably forced to leave cause there was no overcoming it.

Simply put, a group of rangers mass together and cave themselves in by spamming spirits. They keep all their spirits and themselves alive by using heal spring. Sometimes the spirit spamming gets so bad that you can't even hurt the actual people inside.

I'm sorry but I'm tired of fighting my way in HoH with a group until we come across this build. Everyone in the team automatically knows that we have to quit, cause there's simply no beating that.

Solution? Simple. I don't think Nature's Renewal needs to be made an elite, but something must be done to all this spirit spamming.

For one I think that spirits (since they are translucent in their nature) should not impede travel. It's a damn spirit.. you should be able to walk through it.

Second of all.. you shouldn't be able to spam spirits. You shouldn't be able to drop a spirit until after the first one is gone. It just doesn't make any sense to me how this was overlooked.

I've read the first couple of posts but when i saw they were just complints I deciede not to bother reading any further.
Here are a few suggestions for how to counter this build.

Earthquake is a loveley one beacuse it inficts some decent dmg while knocking down (And therefore disruptin) all the palyers in the radius, therefore preventing their casting.
Meteor shower is also another useful nuke as it contuniously knocks down the opposition.

Edge of extinction is a great spirt to kill other spirts with. If you can drop one of these and keep it healed when the other spirts hit their timer expire (Or you kill them) the chain reaction should be enough to wipe all spirts away.

Cry of frustiation is also another way to stoop these rangers dead in their tracks.
Energising winds is a great way to counter the zpeherys and slow down their recast time on their spirngs.

Epedemic or fevered dreams with mind burn or several other nasty conditions.

Spiteful spirt is guarenteed to put the hurt on the enimie party if their spamming.
Power block or balckout can stop a particularly annoying spammer.

I haven't tested this but does scourge healing effect healing spring?
Panic or Enegry surge should work well on this group too.
Signet of weariness also.

I'm obviously very luucky as to not have run into this unbeatable team yet. I've heard our oppents say healing ball quite a few times in referance to the alter holding side but it's never been anything we couldn't deal with.

How is this team killing the opposition btw? Or are they specificy for alter holding battles?

Desecration Station · Aug 05, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

With Fertile Season up every ranger has upwards of 900 health.

Problem is you take for granted that these rangers will do anything but lay down spirits or heal spring. It's an 8 man ranger group.. you only need 2 or 3 set aside for spirit/heal spring. The rest pack a healthy dose of poison arrow, incendiary, kindle/ignite, melandru's, maybe even choking gas. Anything that isn't insta-cast will most likely get interrupted.

aoe spells would seem the most effective, but you forget that most of the spells have +2 second casting times (you better know they'll be interrupted). And you even suggested throwing up Energizing Wind? You just made all those spells that much more interruptable.

I like the idea of using all the different spirits. I just don't like the idea of spamming sheer numbers, just seems kind of mindless to me.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 07, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Sigh. Look spirts die on their own you know. Once their timer expires. Since this group has been camping and spamming their spirts are dying on a regular basis. And they are replacing them. Drop an edge and when they die from "Natural" causes the chain reaction should wipe the lot out. Just be awear that with this up killing an enime party straight away is not a good idea if the edge didn't drop to! Best to keep them busy, distract their spirt spamming (Distracting shot, leach sigbnet, knockdown, any warrior disrupting ability, Earthquake, meteor shower.) and take them out slowly. Use stances or enchantment to block oath shot, or blind them. You can group blind with belly smash or glimmering mark. Or just use fevered dreams or epedemic. Once you've removed the spirts from a One-Trick pony build like this they are defensless. It's exactly why you don't see the spike build much anymore. Once you know the counter they're history.

Red Sonya · Aug 07, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

[Earthquake is a loveley one beacuse it inficts some decent dmg while knocking down (And therefore disruptin) all the palyers in the radius, therefore preventing their casting.
Meteor shower is also another useful nuke as it contuniously knocks down the opposition.]

Sorry Pal, but balanced stance takes care of these two skills easily without KD and you can use a skill with balanced stance. No KD for 10 seconds, plenty of time to put out a spirit.

Better read up on your counters before you go making false statements like this skill will nip em in the bud. lol And balanced stance is instant so "no disrupting."

You also suffer no extra damage bonus from a critical with balanced stance.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 07, 2005, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Right go here to beat em.
How to beat spirt spammers.

Now shut up and play.

Maltare · Aug 07, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desecration Station

I'm tired of everyone saying to work around it and find a way to counter it. It finally happened and someone has finally taken it too far.

Those of you that haven't encountered the infamous 'heal ball' then you have no idea what I'm talking about. Those of you that have, were probably forced to leave cause there was no overcoming it.

Simply put, a group of rangers mass together and cave themselves in by spamming spirits. They keep all their spirits and themselves alive by using heal spring. Sometimes the spirit spamming gets so bad that you can't even hurt the actual people inside.

I'm sorry but I'm tired of fighting my way in HoH with a group until we come across this build. Everyone in the team automatically knows that we have to quit, cause there's simply no beating that.

Solution? Simple. I don't think Nature's Renewal needs to be made an elite, but something must be done to all this spirit spamming.

For one I think that spirits (since they are translucent in their nature) should not impede travel. It's a damn spirit.. you should be able to walk through it.

Second of all.. you shouldn't be able to spam spirits. You shouldn't be able to drop a spirit until after the first one is gone. It just doesn't make any sense to me how this was overlooked.

Okay, yes you can counter healing balls, Meteor Shower. GG cya later. Now, how many successful groups run meteor shower? Not many, so yes I agree that the healing ball is incredibly annoying. My guild has however killed several of them The only good one we ran into was in HoH, and they held it for a good long time.

But yeah, any other map besides altars, or if you take the altar first, GG, cya later. It's just time and take the proper amount of coordiation and hitting proper targets. But yes, as I already stated, the healing ball has only worked on my guild once, and that was in HoH.